American Music's Whites Interview

I guess we should start at the beginning of your career, what moved you Buck?

Buck: I started playing music because I liked the sound of music. I was a fan of Gene Autrey, Tex Ritter and Jimmy Wakeley. I heard Roy Acuff. I was very musically inclined to play and sing . I got a guitar and learned myself to play. I started singing with a boy in Highschool and we decided to form a band, quit school in 1950 and moved to Abilene Texas to play on a daily radioshow and that's where I met my wife who sang and played too. We got married, had children and we had a passtime of picking and singing around the house and going to other people's houses at weekends to play music. The girls grew up with that. They were around and picked it up from us. And when they were old enough they started singing because it was a natural thing to do. They grew up in an environment of music all the time. Their mother taught them to sing and when they were 7, 8 years old we started singing together. It progressed and they got to Highschool they decided to sing more and more and so we got our family band. It grew until they decided to move to Nashville and try to make country music for a living in 1971.

Have you ever felt pushed and what was your father's influence?

Sharon: No. never. It was a natural thing for Cheryl and me to grow up loving the music and sing because our parents sang. Looking back we feel very fortunate that Daddy had an opportunity to play in other bands but never did although many Nashville stars wanted him to play piano in their band. When Cheryl and I were very young he got a big chance, before we were singing, but he and Mum decided that he would be on the road forever and gone from the family. At that point he'd loved to go to Nashville but he chose to keep the family together. That was his priority. He made that choice, a sacrifice really but we kept the music at home always. From the time our parents started their band in Arkansas in 1963 til we moved to Nashville which was our choice.

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Your family ties seem to be very strong?

Cheryl: My parents come from close families. Mother's family was larger; there were 6 children. They worked hard picking cotton in the fields in Texas. They had to work real hard to survive. Dad's family was smaller, he only had one sister. But they passed that on to us. We just got that, being close with the family. We've always enjoyed spending time together and doing things together. And there was always the music in and around the house.. When we went to Grandma for Christmas there was always someone to play and sing. You can't separate our love for music from the love for our family.

When it comes to picking songs, how democratic is a familyband?

Buck: Everyone has a choice of material and if they find a song they like, then the other band members give their opinion. If we pick a song for an album everyone has to agree or we throw it out. And if it's not the right song everybody wouldn't agree anyway. Sometimes someone has second thoughts about it, but if the other two really like it we'll try it, but if it doesn't work out we don't do it on our show dates. You can't always pick the ones you think might become hits. Because when it comes to singles you can't always figure out what the public wants. But we are very democratic. Everybody speaks out his or her mind. We get along better that way.

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And when did you get your name on a record first time?

Buck: Ghee, that's hard. That came years later. I can't remember unless it was the solo-album that I did called "More pretty girls than one".

Sharon: When we started recording as a band in 1971, 1972 our first release was on County Records and we were recording under the name Buck White and the Down Home Folks. That was our first album. We did four more on independant labels before we got our first major recording contract. Our second for County was a live one called "Live at the Old Time Picking Parlour" that was one of the acoustic clubs in Nashville. But our albums in the beginning were more bluegrass. We were playing a lot of acoustic music. We played country music on bluegrass instruments. So somehow we fell in between bluegrass and country. Our next album was "That down home feeling" on Ridgerunner out of Texas and also acoustic. Our fourth album was "Poor fools pleasure" and it was the first one we tried to do something commercial. Then Dad did the solo albim "More pretty girls than one" . It started out as an instrumental mandoline album. But he got Ricky (Skaggs) involved in producing and Ricky said: Why don't you play some piano? So he played some piano

songs and ended up siging "San Antonio Rose". Right after that we were signed to Capitol which lasted a few years but they only released one single. We were in the process of doing an album but it was never completed. Then we went to Curb and they placed us with Elektra in the beginning and we ended up buying those tapes from Capitol and re-recorded some tracks like "Blue letters" and "Old familiar feeling". Then Elektra and Warner Bros merged so our first album came out on WB . It was called "Old familiar feeling" and from the album 5 singles were released. It was a great album. We got 3 Top 10 singles. Then we cut another album for WB but before it was released Curb, who we were actually signed to, moved us to MCA. So MCA bought it from WB. That was "Forever you". And that was a good one too. Then came "Whole new world" followed by a "Greatest Hits" album and now there is "Ain't no binds".

Is there a special reason why the album is called "Ain't no binds" ?

Cheryl: It was one of the first songs we heard when we started choosing. Daddy came with it. We listened to hundreds of songs we kept getting back to that and when we started picking an album title, we liked the arrangement, the feeling and there is a double meaning to "Ain't no binds". It implies freedom. We have been fighting for years for our music, for what we think we do best and what we love to do but it's very hard to stay true to yourself. So it has a kinda double meaning for us. Funny you're the first one to ask about that.

Could anyone line up the hits for the Whites? See it as a memory test.

Cheryl: Our first single was "You can put the blue in me". When we recorded it we only had a single deal with Elektra. It went to #10 and was also the only song that got us a Grammy nomination. For a first single it was quite a thrill in 1982. The next one was "Hanging around" and that went to # 9. Third one was "I wonder who's holding my baby tonight" which also got to # 10. The fourth release was "When the new wears off of our love" and that got to # 14 and the first one that didn't make the Top 10. Then came "Old familiar feeling" and that got stuck on #11

Sharon: The next album was "Forever you" and the single "Pins and needles" (after some deliberation) got to # 9. Then came "Forever you" that got up to # 14 or so (I think I remember "Forever you ended up at # 5 and more about that song: see John Beland interview HH)

But how exactly did you get that song?

Cheryl: I think we got it from Neil Worf, our drummer, who played for the Burrito Brothers and was demoed by Rick and Janis Carnes who had written "Pins and needles". But when we heard "Forever you" we didn't realize that John Beland has written it with us in mind, we only found out later and we hadn't met then. We fell so in love with that song. It had our name written all over it. The words and everything. And Rick and Janis knew us well enough to demo it in our style with dobro and mandoline and all. There was no question cutting that song from the first time we heard it. We first heard it on the bus and felt the same way, all of us. (But there's another funny story about "Forever you" which can be found on John Beland's interview HH)

The recording and all was being done and we got good friends with John. He told us that he's gone to the bank and borrowed money to buy a house on the strength of "Forever you" which would be the title of the album and released as a single. Because in our mind there was no doubt it was a good single. But the months went on and they releaed "Pins and needles" as a single first and we all got started having shaky feet because the record company was saying maybe, maybe not. So we were all panicking a little. We told John before that we had no doubt it would be a single so he bought his house on that. He told that he saw the banker and ducked because there still was no single but later on it turned out for good.

How did you girls react when Dad came home saying he had a record deal?

How did you girls react when Dad came home saying he had a record deal?

Sharon: I remember he had a discussion with the man from County Records and he found out that we were going to do an album although we had no contract. But when he came and told us we were very excited. We only lived in Nashville for a few months and we already knocked on an awful lot of doors and being turned down by by the major labels. They told us our music was too much bluegrass, too traditional saying that stuff isn't selling and all of those things. We knew what we wanted to do but some people didn't give us a chance to put it on record. So when Dad came home and told us we finally had a deal, yes we were very excited.

The Whites always had a very fresh and unique sound. Very recognizable between all sound-alikes in Nashville. What was the basis?

Sharon: Our music is that what evolved over the years. My Dad was influenced by cowboy music, country, bluegrass, gospel, western swing. But Cheryl and I can't say that we were directly influenced by that music but Dad had a big influence on us. We learned to play and sing from him. All these styles are incorporated in what we do but it was not conscious. We never tried to sound like someone, it came naturally.

Cheryl: I remember when Daddy was at work we played records, I guess we were 5 or 6, and listened to Ray Charles. We even heard him before the Carter Family because we had the record. Songs like "Midnight special" and "Come walk with me", songs we later on recorded. The first country music show we ever went to was Wilma Lee and Stoney Cooper when we were 6 years old. Dad told us that Wilma Lee sang with her father and that brought us to the idea that families could sing together. She grew into it as we did.

But still, how do you develop your own style?

Buck: The Whites concentrate on the vocals. Getting the vocals real tight, real close, singing the words in the same key. We really worked hard on that for years and we backed it up with what we were able to do with the three of us. Then we hired an extra guy when we got to play the jobs and another one; so the band grew, but the music was still concentrated on the vocals. The outcome of our trio is 20 years old now.

What was your reaction when Sheryl told you she was going to marry Ricky Skaggs?

Cheryl: That's a funny question. We met Ricky when we were very young, 16 or 17. We all were playing bluegrass and we became friends. So when so got engaged we were friends for such a long time and travelled so much being part of "The Down Home Folks"and "The Whites" but after one year he tried to make it on his own. I know Ricky was destined but when they got engaged he was not famous only another bluegrass musician. Although if you watched him in his younger days you could see that he had something special. He was just a good friend of ours and I was very happy for the both of them.

But there is a story about time you ever met, right?

Sharon: You may have heard the story that he once told about our first meeting. I saw him the first time at Beanblossom, Indiana at the Bill Monroe festival in june. I didn't meet him there, just saw him. He was with Keith Whitley and Ralph Stanley. They were setting the woods on fire; it was incredable what they did. Everybody was talking about the new duo, Ricky and Keith. The following month we in july, we were also booked on the same festival in Kilgore, Texas. Ricky has told that he loved my voice from the first time he heard me sing. But the funny thing is that we hadn't met yet. Cheryl and I said we're going to meet those boys because they sing so great. We went to the table where they were selling records and there we met and joked around for a while.

Later on he heard us sing a song called "When the golden leaves begin to fall". He came where we camped and asked us to give him the words to that song. We talked for a while and he went away. I sat with Mum and wrote the words down and took them to him. But later on I found that he'd known the words to that song much longer than we did but used it as an excuse to come over and talk to me. The Stanley Brothers recorded it and of course he knew every song they ever recorded. But we became friends for the next ten years and our friendship went on a romantic base and we are married now (happened in 1982). When we fell in love we were both afraid it would do something terrible to our friendship but it hasn't. He is my best friend and my biggest fan.

Something else is that you had a guy in your band who could play a little dobro. Where did you find him and why did he leave?

Buck: Jerry Douglas was becoming a very popular dobro player before he joined The Whites. He did things on the dobro that nobody else did before and he was really waking people up to the instrument. He was making more than just a Hawaiian guitar type that could only play slow backup music. It became more of a lead-type instrument like a leadguitar or a fiddle, really exciting, electrifying. We became friends because he also worked the bluegrass circuit as we did, we played some together and after a while we said it would be great if his dobro was added to our band. All of the time we had a 5 string banjo. We did songs that were no special banjo tunes, slower country songs. Songs where normally a steelguitar would fit in than a banjo. So we hired him and dropped the banjo which happened in a normal way and turned out to be right. He played with us for 7 years. Then we did a TV show with Emmylou Harris, Jerry just left The Country Gentlmen and after that show we started about hiring him.

The reason he left us is of becoming so popular on his own as an artist. He got the opportunity to record as an individual artist and the money was so attractive that The Whites couldn't afford him any longer. So he outgrew the job, and for a change and everything, it evolved. But we're still the best of friends.

That brings us back to the new album. You could have hired Jerry but you didn't. Probably that's why "Ain't no binds" is a good title for it. Starting a new sound that has no binds to what was. Or you wanted to sound live as on the album which wasn't possible without Jerry.

Buck: Exactly. The Whites want to sound on stage as on the record. We thought we couldn' find another guy to duplicate Jerry's sound so we had to go with something else to take the attention off the dobro and hired the best steelguitar player we could find and that's Tommy White. We now have a different kind of music, no longer dobro music. Just music where we put the vocals up front.

Do you regret you had to leave the dobro out of your music?

Cheryl: I have to say I miss it but we still have some left because Tommy also plays the dobro real well. But we played in bands with fiddle and steel long before we had a dobro player so it was a natural addition when left that we would go back to a steelguitar which has always been on our albums. So in our minds it wasn't that much of a change. This sound has always been a part of The Whites' music. It's more that we miss Jerry as a friend but in the end we now do have both steelguitar and dobro and that broadens our music.

Wasn't Ricky good enough to produce the new album?

Sharon: No, Ricky has produced all our albums and we were very pleased but it's a matter of growth that we're talking about here. Going from the banjo to the dobro and the fiddle, going from mandoline to the piano, going from acoustic bass to electric bass. All this is a matter of growth in the Whites music. Our music came out of a variety of backgrounds and it's still growing. If it'll stop growing, it'll die. That goes for country music too. I'm happy that people are buying traditional country music again but we, as artists, if we try to hold the music back, we'll do something very detrimental to it. We have to let it go. That's what happened to countryrock. It turned you on in the beginning, it stimulated a whole lot of people, people who never listened to country music before but if you still do that you're a traditionalist too. Because where is it now?

But it wasn't Ricky's choice that we used a different producer. The idea came from our label MCA and they felt it would be time for a change but at first we fought the idea but then we started to realize it was for our best. Our beliefs in our lives have always worked out well for us. We believe in devine influence. At first we thought we were forced into this but it gave us the control back. And it's positive for Ricky that he's only producing his own records now. He has all the time to devote to his albums. And in the private sector it's positive as well because when we're at home there's not always an album project that we have to talk about. It doesn't mean that he'll never produce one again or get involved. I'd like to have more of the production control for The Whites. I feel like a co-production situation with whoever. We don't know yet who's gonna produce our next album and to tell you the thruth, we don't even know on which label it'll be.

Right now we're no longer with Curb. So we're gonna discuss a new contract with some of the labels in Nashville when we get back home.

How about Ricky joining The Whites?

Sharon (This really makes her laugh) .. I don't think so. We're happy the way it is. Musically

we're both very happy. Don't forget that we do different things.

Although we both like the traditional sounds of country music but

we have different musical backgrounds, Ricky is more bluegrass

and gospel. But he keeps on what's going on in contemporary

country music and rock 'n' roll and knows a lot about it and really

enjoys it. I like contemporary acoustic music.

So let's keep it like it is.

Buck Regarding you even didn't know what you were going to ask,

this is the nicest interview we're done in long time.

Thanks for that and your time.

American Music Interview series

The Whites

I met The Whites in 1987, during the rained-out festival at Wetzlar, Germany, same venue where I didn't see Steve Earle and Dwight Yoakam play. Because the show was cancelled The Whites had time to kill, and here's how we did it.

1977, Live at the Old Time Pickin' Parlor (County Records)

1978, Poor folks pleasure

(Sugar Hill)

Buck, for yor part, is there a hang to nostalgia, recording old Buck Owens songs? What did you do when he and Elvis were big?

Buck: For about a year I played in a band that played Bill Haley music, all the popular music at that time. I played piano and we featured rockabilly music. Country music took a bad setback at that time. I was still playing dances exept for that short time but my heart wasn't completely in it. I liked swing and country better.

About your recording career, can you remember your first one?

Buck: I think the first one I did was with a guy called Bill Mack, he was a DJ who made a name for himself with an all night program out of Ft. Worth Texas and he recorded for Four Star. I recorded with a guy called Slim Willard who wrote "Don't let the stars get in your eyes" which became a big hit. I played on the first recording of that song. That was the most notable thing that I did as a sideman. The song was recrded by some 20 major artists in every field later on.

Sharon: I wanna put something in here. For so long we were really just kids. Daddy had to do everything. He did the booking, the driving, he did all the work. And as we grew up, we grown into a partnership. There is a very fine line between daughters and father and three partners.And when it comes down to it, to the father and daughter relation, we respect him because he is our father and he has more experience than we do.